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By Suzanne

Interview with Steve Niles of "Remains" on Chiller 12/7/11

Syfy REMAINS Q&A w/ Executive Producer Steve Niles

December 7, 2011 1:00 pm CT

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Steve Niles Remains conference call.

During the presentation all participants will be in a listen-only mode. Afterwards, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. At that time if you have a question, please press the 1followed by the 4 on your telephone. If at any time during the conference you need to reach an operator, please press star 0. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded, Wednesday, December 7, 2011.

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Maureen Granados from Chiller. Please go ahead, ma’am.

Maureen Granados: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today. We’re so excited to have to Steve Niles with us on the phone to chat about Remains, which is Chiller’s first original movie. And by now you should have gotten the press kit. If you haven’t, please let me know. But, as you should know by now, it’s going to premier Friday, December 16th at 10:00 pm on Chiller.

And Steve, you still there?

Steve Niles: Yeah, I’m still here.

Maureen Granados: Let’s now turn it over to everyone’s questions.

Steve Niles: All right.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen just as a reminder to register for a question, please press the followed by the 4.

Steve Niles: It’s like a game show.

Operator: Our first audio question comes from the line of Erin Willard with SciFi Mafia. Please proceed with your question.

Erin Willard: Hi. Thanks so much for being on this call. The trailer for the movie looks terrific. I’m really looking forward to seeing the...

Steve Niles: Oh, thanks.

Erin Willard: ...movie. Were you involved in this production beyond creating the source material?

Steve Niles: You know they kept me very close to it. Basically, I guess the best way to call my role was, I supervised a lot. They ran the script by me and I did set visits and I was in constant contact with the folks at Chiller and Synthetic and they kept me involved at every stage of approving makeup and like I said, the script.

But part of it is these guys really knew what they were doing and I felt perfectly comfortable being on the coast while they were working on it. But, they kept me involved quite a bit and I really appreciate that.

Erin Willard: Oh, that’s great. Now, so as an author what do you look for when you’re approached by someone who wants to turn a graphic novel of yours into a movie or a series?

Steve Niles: Honestly, enthusiasm for the material means more to me than a big option. Kind of a good example is what happened with 30 Days of Night. When we were selling 30 Days of Night it turned into a bidding war and we had to choose between (unintelligible) was which one was (unintelligible)...

Maureen Granados: Hey, Steve, your phone’s breaking up a little bit.

Steve Niles: (Oh, it is)?

Maureen Granados: Yeah.

Steve Niles: Okay. (Unintelligible). Is it okay?

Maureen Granados: That’s much better.

Steve Niles: Okay.

Erin Willard: Oh, there.

Steve Niles: Okay. Okay, are you - I don’t even want to - this is so embarrassing to tell you what that was. My wife forgot you can’t run the microwave when I’m on the phone.

So, I’m sorry, which part - what part didn’t you hear?

Erin Willard: We didn’t hear anything after you said the bidding - started talking about the bidding war for 30 Days.

Steve Niles: Oh, yeah. So yeah, the bidding war for 30 Days of Night is the perfect example of, - the thing was I really didn’t care. There were three studios bidding, they all had a lot of money, but I went with the one that had Sam Raimi, you know, attached to it...

Erin Willard: Sure.

Steve Niles: ...because I know Sam knows horror, and that was very similar with the guys from Remains. Andrew reached out to me from Synthetic Cinema and he was very upfront about it. He was like, “We’re a small company and we’ve just done these things, but we really love this material,” and he understood Remains too, which was really important to me.

And he didn’t - because a lot of times what happens in Hollywood is people will come to you and say, “Oh my, God, I love your book. Let me tell you our take on it.” It’s like, “But, the book is the take.” And that didn’t happen with Chiller and with Synthetic Cinema. They wanted to do the comic book, you know? They wanted to capture the spirit of it and that’s shockingly rare. So, their enthusiasm is what really got my attention.

Erin Willard: Oh, that’s great. Well, I can’t wait to see it. Good luck to you.

Steve Niles: Thank you.

Operator: Thank you. Our next audio question comes from the line of Jenna Bush with Zap2it. Please proceed with your question.

Steve Niles: Hi, Jenna.

Jenna Bush: Hey, Steve.

Steve Niles: Hi, Jenna.

Jenna Bush: How are you?

Steve Niles: I’m good.

Jenna Bush: Hi.

Steve Niles: It’s nice to talk to you on here instead of Twitter.

Jenna Bush: I know, right? Well, I want to ask you about zombies and why you think they’re so popular. You know I love them, but I - what do you think it is about it right now? Why are they so amazing?

Steve Niles: I think horror always reflects our general fears and anxieties in society. And right now, without getting too serious, right now we’re actually afraid of other people. We’re afraid of disease, we’re afraid of being invaded by people who look kind of like us, so you know the way we sort of express those fears are through what better than this mindless zombie hoard that wants to eat us. You know, these - our neighbors. I mean, they’re our friends and neighbors who want to kill us and eat us.

So, I think zombies are a very, very basic way for us to confront those fears too, because the reality of it, it’s the real world stuff is so horrifying and zombies are a great way for us to sort of work through those fears, and that’s just something I feel about horror in general. I always feel like it’s a relief and we use it to like I said, to illustrate what we’re afraid of, and then shoot it in the head, you know?

Does that make sense?

Jenna Bush: Totally, yeah, totally. And I have to ask you quickly just because, you know, I love this stuff, Paradise Lost, where are you guys on that right now?

Steve Niles: I’m writing a script that I’m pretty sure I’m going to have to go into protective custody when the artist reads it, because if you’ve ever read Paradise Lost there isn’t - once the war starts everything is in the millions. So, for the first time in my life I’m writing a comic book and I’m literally going like, I am so sorry, but a million angels come swirling down.

But, I’m having - I’m really having a lot of fun with it. I’m working from Alex Proyas’s script, so not the poem. If I was working from the poem I would not sound nearly as chipper. But, Alex Proyas wrote this incredible script and that’s what I’m adapting. And he really figured out a way to strip it down to the basic story where you’re dealing with basically the story of Lucifer and his relationship to the Arch Angels and how the whole division started, and I’m really having fun. I think it’s going to be - and then Michael Kaluta is doing the art, so if he doesn’t kill me it’s going to be a beautiful book.

Jenna Bush: Awesome. I cannot wait to see it.

Steve Niles: Oh, thanks.

Jenna Bush: All right. Thanks, Steve.

Steve Niles: Oh, sure.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Troy Rogers with TheDeadbolt.com. Please proceed with your question.

Troy Rogers: Hi, Steve.

Steve Niles: Hi. How you doing, man?

Troy Rogers: Good. I just wanted to know, how does it feel to have the first original movie on Chiller?

Steve Niles: You know this is really exciting for me because I really like TV movies. I grew up with TV movies. Dan - I don’t even know if this name will mean anything to anybody on this call, but Dan Curtis, a hero of mine, he wrote the show, the Night Stalker shows and Dark Shadows, and I mean he was behind so much of these great things and he used to do all these great TV movies.

And also, it used to be Richard Matheson used to write tons of ABC Movies of the Week during the 70s and they’re these really wonderful, pretty much exactly this kind of stuff. They were Richard Matheson short stories turned into movies for TV, so I just have this - a really special affection.

And I remember when they called I could tell there was - everybody sort of like apologetic, “Do you want to do a TV movie?” And I was - I’m thrilled with it because, just Night Stalker being one of my favorite TV movies of all time, you know? So, I remember when I got together with these guys I started talking to them about these TV movies and sort of got them in the spirit of it.

So I’m thrilled and then Chiller has wound up being just - they’re already like my family. They’ve been so great in keeping me informed. (Shane) and (Tom) and everybody has just welcomed me into the Chiller family, and they’ve been - it’s just been wonderful, and I cannot say enough about the promotion on this. It’s hard for me to even watch Chiller right now because I get sick of seeing my name all over the place.

So, I’m really excited and I’m excited about the movie too, because I think it really came out fun.

Troy Rogers: Excellent. Good to hear. Well, hopefully that means we’ll see more of your stuff in the future.

Steve Niles: I - you know, let’s just say there are talks. We are talking.

Troy Rogers: Hey, good to know.

Steve Niles: Yeah.

Troy Rogers: One more quick thing, Steve, and I’ll let you go. I wanted to know, what are you more partial to, vampires or zombies?

Steve Niles: That’s a tough one. I have to go with vampires and let me qualify that. The - my kind of vampires.

Troy Rogers: Okay.

Steve Niles: Mean, nasty vampires that don’t want to seduce you; they want to take your blood. I just - I’ve been writing them for a long time, I’ve developed an affection for them, and as a writer there’s slightly more you can do with that particular monster. Zombie stories are great for telling stories about humans, oddly enough, while vampires are great for telling stories about vampires because they are technically still human and have brains and lives and emotions, and things like that that you can play with. So, I’d have to go with vampires.

Troy Rogers: All right, cool. Thanks again, Steve.

Steve Niles: Sure, man.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ryan Turek with ShockTillYouDrop.com...

Steve Niles: Hi, Ryan.

Ryan Turek: Hey, Steve.

Operator: ...please proceed with your question.

Steve Niles: How are you?

Ryan Turek: What’s going on, man? Good how are you?

Steve Niles: Now, what are you, like a block away?

Ryan Turek: No, no, no. What’s going on? Can you hear me now?

Steve Niles: Yeah. No, no, I’m just saying that I - it’s hilarious...

Ryan Turek: Oh.

Steve Niles: ...we’re doing this when you could probably walk to the house.

Ryan Turek: I know. I know. So listen, I’ve got to as, you know, because I think what needs to be brought up, I mean for those who haven’t read the Remains graphic novels is what separates the Remains zombies from anything else that we’ve seen?

Steve Niles: Well, really, I mean that’s a big thing I wanted to bring up - or I want to talk about too, because I know a lot of people right now, Walking Dead is so popular and that’s sort of the current version of what people think zombies are.

When I sat down to write Remains, you’ll - you remember this, it was the time when Walking Dead was just starting to get strong as a comic, Land of the Dead...

Ryan Turek: Yeah.

Steve Niles: ...was out. There was just sort of - there was a zombie surge building. And when I sat down to do Remains I wanted to do something different, and I wanted to do something that was a little bit bigger than the - do they run or do they shamble?

And for that it seemed it like I had to come up with something that could put the audience and the characters on edge, because let’s face it, now especially, everybody knows how to deal with zombies, you know? You board up in the house and you wait it out. You shoot them as they come to you, you know? But, in Remains that doesn’t necessarily work because of the event that creates these zombies there’s actually two different kinds.

And one of them was slightly more advanced and they’re eating the others and they’re evolving, and there’s - so you can’t - in Remains you can never sit back in your boarded up house and be comfortable, because the zombies will sooner or later figure out how to either climb in or pull the boards off, so I had a lot of fun with that.

I had a lot of fun playing with zombie conventions, because there’s not just the Walking Dead zombies, there’s the George Romero zombies, the (Folchi) zombies, there’s the Return of the Living Dead zombies, there’s the remake of Dawn of the Dead zombies, and I really tried to kind of have fun with all of them, you know?

Ryan Turek: Yeah.

Steve Niles: And that’s another thing and it’s just a pet peeve of mine with any genre movie it bugs me when everything is all the same. Like when the Star Trek planet where everybody has blonde bowl cuts. I’m like, “How did that happen,” you know? Now, so I figure in a world where zombies are created and especially in Remains, is because of the human accident that there would be variations of the disease of the - based on the proximity to what happened.

Did that make sense?

Ryan Turek: Yeah. That...

Steve Niles: Do you...

Ryan Turek: ...totally made sense. No...

Steve Niles: All right.

Ryan Turek: ...and I need to ask you real quick, you had mentioned on Twitter that somebody approached you about a stage production of one of your properties. What was it?

Steve Niles: Yeah, I’ll tell you what, I can’t say which property yet because I haven’t actually met with them. We want to make sure it’s possible. But, what I can say is it’s going to be one of mine and Bernie Wrightson’s, so...

Ryan Turek: Right.

Steve Niles: ...essentially what we’re going to try to do is do a live Bernie Wrightson comic. And...

Ryan Turek: Cool.

Steve Niles: ...Bernie will - Bernie wants to paint the sets, so...

Ryan Turek: That’s awesome.

Steve Niles: ... I’m going to have a problem now with - the backdrops are going to be original Bernie Wrightson art and I’m going to have to like - they’re going to be more valuable than anything. So, what we’re going to try to do is do a live comic on stage.

Ryan Turek: That’s awesome, dude. That’s awesome. Very cool. Well, thanks, man.

Steve Niles: No, thank you. Good to talk to you, man.

Ryan Turek: Yeah, we’ll catch up off the (cover).

Steve Niles: Okay, good. Okay, good then. Thanks so much.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Steve Eramo with The Morton Report.

Steve Eramo: Hi, Steve. It’s pleasure to speak with you today.

Steve Niles: Great meeting you. How you doing, man?

Steve Eramo: Very well, thanks. Listen, I want to find out maybe if you could perhaps tell us what were some of the biggest production challenges, you would say, bringing the Remains comic book in front of the camera and then on to the small screen would you say?

Steve Niles: Well, the biggest thing is, and I run into this a lot with comic books to movies. In a comic book you have no budget. I can do anything I want. If I want 10,000 bikers coming out of the horizon, I can do that. The artist will be mad at me, but it’s not a budget issue.

So, the first thing we had to do was go through the comic and there were a few set pieces that would have just been impossible, and if - people who read the comic there is a biker scene in there that it just would have cost too much money because it literally is hundreds and hundreds of bikers approaching through the desert not realizing that they’re about to hit an entire system of wires...

Steve Eramo: Oh, geez.

Steve Niles: ...and so they all get sliced like deli sandwiches as they ride into the city. The budget to shoot that was just way over the top, so we had to come up with other ways to do it.

I’m really happy with Synthetic Cinema because the budget was a TV movie budget, I am absolutely shocked at how much of the comic that they actually got on film, you know? They did such a good job of figuring out a way around all the - I don’t want to give too much away, but there’s a scene involving a circus prop for a sort of Cirque du Soleil-type casino, I assumed that that would just be cut because it’s so over the top and so silly, and they found a way to do it. And not only...

Steve Eramo: Wow.

Steve Niles: ...did they, they found a way to do it so that it’s really effective. So, I’ve been really happy with this. I have always been a fan of low budget horror. As a matter of fact, I think in the history of horror most of our best films started with kids with not much money trying to figure out a way to make the best movie possible. And...

Steve Eramo: Yep.

Steve Niles: ... I will point to the greatest zombie movie of all time, which is Night of the Living Dead.

Steve Eramo: Yeah.

Steve Niles: It was shot for what, $70,000 on the weekends because they were making industrial movies at the time. So, I think Synthetic, Andrew and all the guys at Synthetic really did just a fantastic job, because like I said, except for the biker hoard we got everything in there.

Steve Eramo: Awesome. Awesome.

Steve Niles: Yeah.

Steve Eramo: And you had mentioned you had done some site visits during the production, and any particular, I don’t know, any particular visit or any particular day or scene being shot really stick out for you that you can speak about without revealing too much?

Steve Niles: Yeah, I was so impressed with - I visited the set with Ted Adams, who is the publisher at IDW, and we’ve been on other sets, Hollywood sets, and one of the things we noticed is when you’re on a Hollywood set it’s like, “Boy, they spend about nine hours shooting about 15 seconds,” you know? It just - it can get really tedious.

These guys, man, they moved in like a strike team. They came in and had this hotel. They had the scenes set up in the various rooms they were going to go to and we watched them go room to room. I mean, and it wasn’t Ed Wood, Reckless, it was, they knew what they wanted. They had everything set up and spread out so they didn’t have to break everything down and reset up, so we watched them just go scene to scene to scene. It was incredible.

They just moved around and everybody - and it was really great watching the cast because Grant, who plays Tom, Grant Bowler, he was on set to get the zombies riled up and there’s a scene where there’s a - without giving the plot way, there’s a scene with an electronic door.

And they shot it, and so I guess they did about eight or nine takes while I was there, and everyone got better because as everyone, all the actors and the director, all came together and would go like, “Okay, this is what we’re doing and this is great,” and it was a real group effort. There was nobody standing around looking bored, (doing it) - everybody was involved and I hope that spirit of fun comes through because it was just great.

And so there’s a scene with a sliding door, that’s all - I don’t want to give anything away, so there’s a gag that I watched them shoot and I just - it was really fun seeing how they did it.

Steve Eramo: Steve, once again, thank you so much for your time and I look forward to seeing more of your work on Chiller in the future.

Steve Niles: Oh, thank you so much.

Steve Eramo: Take care.

Steve Niles: You too.

Operator: Our next question comes from the line of Joe Nazzaro with SciFiNow Magazine. Please proceed with your question.

Joe Nazzaro: Hi, Steve. Best wishes from another New Jersey boy.

Steve Niles: Oh, thanks. Where are you in Jersey?

Joe Nazzaro: I’m in the distant reaches of Park Ridge down in Bergen County.

Steve Niles: Oh, yeah, I was born in Jackson...

Joe Nazzaro: Yeah. (Unintelligible).

Steve Niles: ...and my mom is in Ledgewood right now, so...

Joe Nazzaro: Well, now that we’ve just bored everybody else that’s on this call, let me...

Steve Niles: Oh.

Joe Nazzaro: ...get to my question.

Steve Niles: Hey, sorry, guys.

Joe Nazzaro: For those of us that have followed your career pretty closely, Steve, you seem to have a wonderful knack for figuring out or anticipating what the next wave of the genre is going to be, so you manage to do that with vampires with 30 Days, with zombies with Remains, and even now the Frankenstein book that you’re doing with Bernie seems to be coming out before this next big wave of Frankenstein projects.

What do you sort of use as your guideline, in terms of what sort of things you want to write, or do you just sort of come up with whatever you think is cool and hopefully the rest of the world will catch up?

Steve Niles: I was just going to say I’m just a fan of this stuff. Everything I’ve ever done has - you know 30 Days came out of I just wanted to do something -I mean I didn’t get paid. When we did that comic it was for free. So, Ben and I had an opportunity to do a different kind of vampire, so I did that.

It’s just I’m a huge, huge horror fan. I mean I don’t think there’s, especially with the classics, I don’t think there’s anything I haven’t seen ten times. And so I have that thing in me where I want to do my versions, but nothing in me wants me to - I have a complete aversion to just doing what somebody else did before, so I always want to try to come up with some sort of fresh new take to - but that’s coming - it really is coming out of the spirit of fun.

I know I - for a horror writer I use the word fun a lot, but that’s really what it comes from, you know? The Frankenstein book is - I carried Bernie’s Frankenstein book around, the first one, when I was kid, and now I’ve grown up and I’m working with him on the sequel, you know? I mean, I’m the luckiest kid - monster kid on earth.

And it really is just enthusiasm because I genuinely love this stuff and I would be doing it whether they were being made into movies or comics, I’d be doing it anyway. And that’s what I did my whole life, I had this reputation of being very prolific, when in fact I’d just been writing my whole life and I just have a lot material piled up, you know?

So, I have never felt like I’m predicting anything or I’m ahead of any curve, that’s a dangerous road to go down, trying to predict trends. So, I just do what I like and just do what I love and I happen to love Frankenstein, vampires, and zombies.

Joe Nazzaro: Well, this is tangentially related question, but I’m sure a lot of us would like to know if there are any plans to do anything with Cal McDonald, either for the small or big screen? And I couldn’t help thinking in the course of this conversation, you know, with this introduction to Chiller it would seem like an awfully nice place to maybe do something with the character if he’s not spoken for already.

Steve Niles: Well, he is spoken for. Right now Cal is being developed at Universal Studios for a feature movie. And after being through multiple studios we finally have - Universal really gets it. And they’re letting us do it as an R, because for years people wanted me to do it as a PG-13 movie and I was like, “Have you read the comic?” Like there’s really not a lot of PG-13 stuff to Cal.

As a matter of fact, I had breakfast with Mike Richardson from Dark Horse yesterday and we discussed it, and we will hopefully have some really good news in, I’d say, the next six months or so, but I’m continuing with the comics. As a matter of fact, I turned in the latest installment of Criminal Macabre yesterday, and so we’re keeping the comics going, we’re going to bring the novels, we’re going to reprint those, and keep all that going.

But yes, there’s - something will happen with Cal McDonald and if it doesn’t pan out as a horror movie, I agree with you that I think it would be a wonderful series, especially just because, there’s, I don’t know, I hate to say this, but there’s 20 years of material. I’ve been writing him for 20 years now, so we could have many seasons if we got it on TV.

Joe Nazzaro: All right. Well, thank you, Steve.

Steve Niles: Oh, thank you so much.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen as a reminder to register for a question, please press the 1 followed by the 4 on your telephone.

And our next question comes from the line of Sheldon Wiebe with EclipseMagazine.com. Please proceed with your question.

Sheldon Wiebe: Hey, Steve. Thanks so much for doing this.

Steve Niles: Of course. How you doing?

Sheldon Wiebe: So far so good, and you?

Steve Niles: Good. Good.

Sheldon Wiebe: Excellent. I was wondering, because most zombie movies are usually completely post-apocalyptic in so far as we don’t know how it happened, it’s so much of a (fete accompli), so to speak, why did you devise such a specific way to get the ball rolling? And I was wondering if there were any other ideas you used or you were considering for that?

Steve Niles: Well, in the - I hate to give a really simple answer, but in the comic I did it because it was funny, you know? I mean it was the - I really wanted to go for the absurdity of the situation that, here we are finally figuring out that we’re going to disarm and it’s Peace Day and something goes wrong, and Peace Day winds up being the end of days.

So, it really was - I was going for something and I was trying to do something a little different, because most zombie movies don’t explain it, so I wanted to try to explain it. And I needed to because I knew that I was going to try to do this thing with different varying degrees of zombies. You know that there are different ones, depending on who was closer to the event, what happens, you know, what kind of zombie you turn into.

So that kind of came out of just trying to do something different.

Sheldon Wiebe: Cool. I noticed that the cast was particularly spot on and I was wondering, especially in the case of Evalena Marie, who’s - Toni (sic) is just perfect...

Steve Niles: She (is).

Sheldon Wiebe: ...how much input did you have with that?

Steve Niles: You know what, that was them. That was - Grant and Evalena just read the comic, understood their characters, and did it. And I was so pleased because Tom and Tori aren’t the most flattering characters. Tom’s not the brightest bulb, and Tori is not the nicest girl, and because to me, I love flawed characters and especially flawed characters who hate each other.

So, I thought they played it so well and there’s some moments where Grant plays off his sort of his - it’s not - he’s not stupid. Like I said, he’s just a little dim, so I love his reaction when people like his ideas. And I just - I was really glad that they embraced that because I tell you, that’s the kind of thing that would be - if that was a Hollywood production, Tom and Tori would become perfect people, you know? They’d become perfect people with slight problems, as opposed to playing them like real people who are a little flawed.

So, I honestly couldn’t be happier because what you’re seeing there is what the director did and what the actors did on their own, reading the script and reading the comic and understanding their characters.

Sheldon Wiebe: Well, it certainly worked. It’s a lovely movie, and I...

Steve Niles: Oh, thank you.

Sheldon Wiebe: ...(unintelligible)...

Steve Niles: Thank you so much. I have not seen the final cut yet. So...

Sheldon Wiebe: Oh, it’s a (unintelligible)...

Steve Niles: I haven’t seen it with the - I’ve seen the cut, but not with the effects added, so I’m very excited to see it.

Sheldon Wiebe: You’ll love it. Thanks so much.

Steve Niles: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Operator: And we presently have no further questions at this time.

Maureen Granados: Okay, great. Well, I think that about then wraps it up. So Steve, thank you so much for joining us today.

Steve Niles: Okay. Sure.

Maureen Granados: And if anyone needs anything else regarding Remains, just feel free to give me a call, 212-664-4143 if you need a press kit. We’ll send that out to you and we’ll also be emailing a transcript, so you can look for that tomorrow.

And again, thanks so much for joining and Remains will premier this Friday, December 16, and I should also mention that we’re going to do a Webisode that’s going to come to ChillerTV.com this Friday, December 9. It’s a little bit of a prequel, so if you need some - that’s kind of just to get the ball rolling if you can’t wait for the 16th, so if you need more information on that let me now as well.

Steve, have a great rest of your day, as well as everyone else. Thanks so much.

Steve Niles: Thank you guys so much.

Maureen Granados: Bye.

Steve Niles: Bye-bye.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen that does conclude the conference call for today. We thank you for participation and ask that you please disconnect your lines.

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